Majority of U.S. women live without a spouse

Njoke and Jason take on a supposed growing trend - singlehood among women. Take a look at this article and video, and either read the article or watch the video. What do you think? Well, we know what we think and we're going to tell you!

Please feel free to add your comments at the end--we'd appreciate your thoughts on this issue.

Jason: I hear you loud and clear

You can't stop a news agency when they have an agenda! Especially when they have something that they can spin into a soundbite. I also found the analysis of this news piece to be sorely lacking. Why are women single? They choose not to get married? They can't find a mate? They have, but have gotten divorced? They're not allowed to (they're lesbian)? A more complete picture would be helpful.

I have to tell you that I don't have much perspective on what it's like being a single black woman...not being a single black woman and all...but I will tell you that about 10 years ago I saw a set of statistics. They looked at the likelihood of being in an interracial relationship among different ethnic-gender groups. The highest? Black men, I think 10%. The lowest? Black women! I think around 2%. I can't find that specific set of statistics, but here's a description of where we stand now.

I know quite a few Asian men who are pissed that they're in a similar boat: tons of non-Asian men want to marry Asian women, but so few non-Asian women want to be with an Asian guy.

What about an Asian men & Black women dating site? There's a business idea...

The issue was address in this book I read by Sister Souljah a while ago, in a book by her (I think No Disrespect). Her solution? Black women should share black men. Not a particularly popular idea among other black women...didn't seem to catch on.

I love your Halle Berry and Beyonce examples. I think other black women that have the requisite money, fame and model-good looks that you could add to this category include Janet Jackson (note the breasts) and Tyra Banks. Hell, I'd want to marry them. That's four women...what more are you looking for?! ;-)

Njoke: There is no there here!

I have to say off the bat that I am terribly disappointed by this article. I mean it is really a puff piece. There is so much more that could be said on this topic.

My first issue is the fact that all women are being lumped together as if women of varying demographics all have the same reason for "opting" to be alone. That just isnt the case. Then, to add insult to injury, Oprah Winfrey and Condolleeza Rice are cited as two shining examples of exactly the kind of women that are opting to go it alone. I think we can all agree that both Oprah and Condee are special cases, I would daresy that they are among the most powerful women in the US if not the world and hardly representative of the average woman. Finally to support their assertions with credible facts they remind us that African American women have the lowest rates of marriage, just 30%. (Just when I thought I could not be driven any further over the edge of insanity)

So I would like to set the record straight. When it comes to availability of marriage-able and willing men, all women are not created equal! This issue shakes down differently depending on your race. Yes, I said it...it needed to be said. You see there is just not a big pool of black men who can and want to get married. And not all of those black men want to marry black women. To each their own, but the problem is there is not a high demand for black women among men of other ethnic backgrounds.

Now, before you go off the deep end, read a bit further. If you ask any man he will tell you how he would happily marry Halle Berry or Beyonce. But we all aren't those women...and if you will notice neither Halle or Beyonce are married. Incidentally, Beyonce has been saying she wants to have a family for a few years now and no ring is forthcoming from Jay-Z (I'm just saying).

So where does that leave alot of beautiful, talented, loveable black women? That's right: checkng the single box on the census. So all I am saying is Dawn Fratangelo should check out all the facts before she declares another victory for women's liberation.

Jason: Discrepancies

I agree, and while we're on the subject of discrepancies, why was it that this gardener was also about 10 years older than the woman he was wooing? Sorry, but the old white man chasing young black women is another unfortunate pattern we don't see the opposite of, ever.

As for Sister Souljah: she is now married. She wrote about "man-sharing" before she got married. Do you think she'd be willing to share her husband now? Ideas like this (much like communism) sound much more beautiful and clever in theory than in practice.

Et tu Jason?

I have to say I have been on the recieving end of that whole "black women should learn to share" line. I understand it from an economic perspective. It is a simple issue of supply and demand and there are just not enough black men to go around. But, for lack of a better justification, let me just say, "I am not feeling that!" I think I have mentioned elsewhere that I love black men but I will go elsewhere before I share. I think that was the point of the movie "Something New" that black women (particularly professional black women who seem to have the hardest time finding husbands) dont have to "opt" for spinsterhood. My only beef with that movie was that a successful accountant (making partner at her firm) could only find love with her gardner. Call me bourgie if you want to but I think it sends the wrong message. Yes love is blind! YEs all that should really matter is that he cares about her wellbeing and supports her and bla bla bla. I get that but I think that only a handful of people who truly loved each other could overcome the obviosu socio-econonomic disparities implied in that relationship. Plus dammit as a professional black women, I think I am worthy of love from a professional man (of any race) as any other woman.

Njoke says:

You might be able to tell how educated his mother is...but unless you are assuming that a child will achieve at least the level of education that his parents did you can't really assume much more than that. But you do raise another interesting point. Higher education system is set up in such a way that it is very difficult to be a parent while in school (particularly for women). I am sure this has contributed to deferred marriage and parenting for many women who value education. So here's a thought provoking question. Is it wiser to delay school and get married to avoid educating yourself out of the dating pool?

Jason replies:

Yeah, you've got to wonder. But I think priorities change and a marriage that might have seemed like a good idea in your late teens or early twenties ends up looking more like a mistake as you get older. I think most of those end in divorce, especially if there's no dependency issue (like a single income). I think the bigger problem is education and need to start on a career track--that's difficult to leave unless you want to end your career--that leaves little time for a woman to have a baby.

Jason: What do later marriages imply?

People are getting married later in life, and often, many are opting against having children. I don't know how widespread this phenomenon is, but it's not at all uncommon in the Bay Area. The more educated the woman is, the later she has children, and the fewer (if any) children she has. Will you be able to tell how educated someone is one day by looking at the age of his/her mother?

Jason: Yeah, it's a complicated issue

Media and cultural representations run, unfortunately, deep. I suspect a lot has to do with tradition, because in the gay community, Asian men and black women tend to get into interracial relationships far more often than in the straight world. A friend told me that 30% of gay/lesbian relationships are interracial.

Njoke: What about an Asian men & Black women dating site?

Personally I think that is an excellent idea. You know that I have dated my fair share of Asian men. The only problem is that these two groups of people do not associate regularly. I also know that our media had yet to present Asian men as sex symbols, which is probably part of the reason they are at the bottom of the "desirablity index" for men. I also am not sure how open Asian men are to dating black women. But that is a whole other can of worms and I am not in the mood to open it today.

Jason: You've got my support

It's a serious issue that MSNBC gave a 2-minute story and a 1-minute read. It makes you want to say: don't bother. Add those extra 2 minutes to your running Iraq commentary, an area that you've become experts in by now.

Where does this article put gay women?

You know Jas I was so caught up in my own rant I didn't even think about how that dynamic influences the census outcome. Gay women can't legally get married and I dont know if they ask about being involved in domestic partnerships. Yet again we have shown that this little article was a shoddy piece of journalism. You know I think I may have to write a letter to this reporter.

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Paul 5 years ago

Great discussion. You're right about the total lack of nuance in the Times article. It seemed to be one of those pieces that journalists occasionally toss like grenades - not at all sophisticated, but it's all about the reaction it causes. It says nothing about varying circumstances - or, as you point out, the situation for gay women who CAN'T legally get married. There's just this gigantic "single" category, and it's thrown to the rest of us to argue over what it all means.

On the topic of weighing the conflict between career and family - aren't women still under a lot of pressure NOT to deviate from the career path by taking time for having/raising children? I know employers in a lot of fields, especially at entry levels, are not interested in employees who seek "work-life balance." This has to be an incentive to stay single. Paradoxically, it seems like one way to address that would be to do better at balancing the concept of "family leave" between men and women. Once men are expected to take family leave at roughly the same rate as women, I'd think that women might get a fairer shake in the job market.

Iwannamarry Butmystatewontletme 5 years ago

I hate it when articles talking about single women or men always assume heterosexuality. Nowhere in the article did it mention the trend toward a more fluid definition of sexual orientation, especially for the 20-30-something generation. Rigid marriage isn't going to allow for that, so why bother? Not to mention all the gay & lesbian couples who'd LOVE to marry but are barred from doing so! This article was rather flimsy, IMHO. Good electronic birdcage lining.

Iðunn 5 years ago

it's not just a racial issue. I think american men for the most part are less interested in getting married unless it's for a double income with what they like to call an "ambitious" wife. it's my belief that the economy is so scuzzy on ground level that financial interests now supercede any concept of love, romance or commitment based outside of that.

Renee Blodgett 5 years ago

It will be interesting to see whether the shift will do a 360 in the next generation and what will cause it. After all, most people want to find a life partner, or at the very least, a best friend they're attracted to, so they don't eat or do weekend activities alone. I think it is just becoming easier and easier for many to fulfill partnership needs with temporary jolts of the stuff that gives relationships its juice without all the issues that come with real intimacy. I wrote about the single women article on my blog here and my thoughts - check it out.- http://www.downtheavenue.com/2007/01/on_single_wom and also link to another NY Times article on women who would not choose to marry the same man again/second time around - http://www.downtheavenue.com/2007/01/women_on_new_

Helen P. 5 years ago

LOL, just saw that you put the tag "spinster" into this!

Halima Anderson 5 years ago

"To each their own, but the problem is there is not a high demand for black women among men of other ethnic backgrounds."

^^^i think the above is a very erroneous albeit widely held view. How do you arrive at the the conclussion that there isnt enough demand for black women among other races of men (at least enought to improve their marriage odds)? Are you taking the present state of affairs as confirmation of this lack of demand without looking at other interprettations for how things stand?

what about considering the flip side, that of black women themselves rejecting other men as viable relationship options. i will tell you why i am more convinced that this is more of the issue than the reverse and i also explored this at length in my book ( see http://www.dateawhiteguybook.com/ )

Given the fact that white male numbers outstrip black females, even a 1% demand from white men would be hard for black females to match (and 1% is a very conservative estimate for white males willing to dating out of their race). so while theoretically, black women might be marginalised on the wider dating front, but this 'marginalisation' is more of less countered by the huge numerical difference between them and their next logical alternative; white males.

hey thanks for visiting my blog! http://dateawhiteguy.blogspot.com/

Cristo 4 years ago

Wow It about time someone took the dive for this one! Yes, I'm a single black woman and I couldnt agree more. Black women are at the bottom of the list when it comes to marriage. I'm not Beyonce or Halley but I can run with the best of them, and It's true it 's still hard to get a brother to marry. Therefore if it's hard for dime piece's to marry then you know the others don't stand a chance. But the question is "How do we (as America) fix this problem???????????????????

Trent 4 years ago

When young black women stop accepting to being referred to as 'hos etc by misogynist rappers it could be a start. Picket the Sony corporation that pays for and produces the majority of this rubbish.

patkagmak 3 years ago

I am very appreciative of the commentary. To see other charged and invested in things is wonderful. I love the unity here a black woman and a white man coming together so to speak. I love the rationale and follow through! This is a classic piece...i am moved to respond with a hub of my own! great idea!

patkagmak 3 years ago